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Post by pwm437 on Mar 20, 2011 8:26:55 GMT 1
As we approach Spring, I thought I would do a bit of a tidy up and came across a box file with my research notes on Camlachie. During the mid 1990's I made contact with members of the showpeople and discovered my hand written notes in the file.
19/4/94 : Mary-Ann Gibson Born in 1915 she remembered many of the Vinegarhill families;
Salvona Boswell (known for Palmistry) Stirling Kerr Testo Gibson Slater Cadona Whites (went to Springburn)
She recalled attending Camlachie Primary School, and the Camlachie Institute, where plays would be performed by school pupils and hristmas parties held.
Vinegarhill Showground was owned by the Green family and was originally split in two, lying both sides of Vinegarhill Street. In 1931 the east side was sold to the Corporation for a park, and Mrs Green, wife of the owner, selected the families who would stay and those who would go. The Greens had three daughters, one of whom, Nona, went on to marry Jimmy McGrory, the famous Celtic footballer.
Shops remembered by Mary-Ann include;
McKee Bakers (Gallowgate at Whitevale) Dorothy Forsyth, owner of the General Wolfe pub Cochranes McLean's Pub
Mary-Ann also remembered collecting hot cinders from an engine works at Mountainblue during the General Strike in 1926, as well as people being arrested and taken to Camlachie Police Station.
At Vinegarhil, the Greens had a picture hall, which was later used as a boxing booth. Vinegarhill ceased to be a carnival around 1927/8.
A family called Marshall from Dunrobin Street owned ponies.
Showman Harry Salvona was known as 'Koko' (clown)
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Post by pwm437 on Mar 20, 2011 8:48:10 GMT 1
21/6/95 : Lizzie Turner
By the 1990's Lizzie was living at 2 Society Street. She was born in 1921 and remembered Herbal Beer being sold at Vinegarhill. The Carters Mission in Holywell Street, McNairs Eating House and Maggie Smiths Fish and Chip shop.
She also remembered back court concerts and a pawnshop, as wel as the sausage skin works.
27/6/94 : Bill Patrick
Bill recalled the meat market in the Calton and spoke about the Battle of the Butts, which took place in former times, and the site became the location of the barracks, where showpeople were to briefly reside for a time.
In his family folklore, the visit to Glasgow by Buffalo Bill loomed large. The Navaho Indians walking around the east end, with some of them choosing to stay in Glasgow after the show had left. One such plains Indian took the Anglified surname of Bow. A descendant was Nathaniel Bow, who became known as Nav (short for Navaho) Bow.
The Veitch family were of Russian extraxt and were known for their bears, who would perform. The Hanley family came from Germany where their name was Geimer. Another Vinegarhill resident was Cari Bernard, who often appeared in variety shows at the Metropole and Queens Theatres. Thomas Paulo, who went on to own the County Bingo, had a grandfather and uncles who owned a circus. Johnny Evans, became wealthy and went on to own the Salmon Hotel at Berwick. His sons went to Oxford and Cambridge, and Johnny also owned a variety hall in Falkirk.
The Caravan Dwellers Society existed before the formation of the Showman's Guild. There were different languages or dialects used. Romanis was the gypsy language, whilst hawkers spoke Cant. A mixed dialect of Irish origin was Mynk.
Bil also remembered a Jewish family called Huddlestone having a shooting stall at Vinegarhill. He also recalled caravans being made of large wooden containers being mounted on a chassis. These containers were originally used by Bryant & May the match manufacturers.
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Post by pwm437 on Mar 20, 2011 9:05:49 GMT 1
14/6/95 : Jimmy Irvine
I met Jimmy at the Showman's Guild offices up in the Charing Cross area. Jimmy was born in 1923 and was Guild secretary. He resided then at Saracen Street, along with some former Vinegarhill families such as the Whites and Testos.
He remembered a Jimmy Kelly, who wore a bowler hat and lived at 843 Gallowgate and acted as caretaker for the site. In 1953 Jimmy removed the remains of a roundabout from the cellar of 843.
Vinegarhill had a small printworks at the top endwhere all the bills and flyers would be printed for the Greens Playhouse empire. The garage at the entrance to the showground contained the original 'penny geggie'.
Jimmy recalled from his childhood a tinker who lived in a caravan on the site who was rumoured to have commited a murder. Nona Green, wife of the principal, was at school with Jimmy;s mother. Smiths snack bar at the Barras was run by Nancy Bow.
Jimmy recalled a guy called John Swallow who wrote a book about fairgrounds.
Vinegarhil also produced a football team called Carnival Celtic, who wore Celtic strips, and the influence is likely to have been Jimmy McGrory and his marriage into the showpeople.
Jimmy spoke of Fred Green who went to America, saw the early movies and decided to show them back home. He erected a canvas booth, powered by electricity from a generator and started showing films.
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Post by lindyloo22 on Mar 20, 2011 10:32:39 GMT 1
Enjoyed reading that Peter.I worked with three families from Vinegarhill the Smiths the Slaters and the Codonas they were all related through marraige.Some are now living in houses but some are still in trailers or mobile chalets. When they wanted to speak their lingo when in mixed company they would say man the cant. one of their words was chavvie wonder if this is where chav comes from
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Post by Waverley on Mar 21, 2011 23:20:51 GMT 1
Excellent stuff Peter really enjoyed these wee snippets. I knew Tommy Swallow a perfect gentleman and he used to tell me about his life on the road.
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Post by tammccann on Mar 22, 2011 21:31:36 GMT 1
list of some of the shows from Vinegarhill
1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): John Swallow (lessee): circus 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): John Day's Crystal Palace Menagerie (Miss Lily Day as the "Lion Queen") 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): John Mander's Waxwork Show 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): Professor Anderton's Illusions 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): Crecraft's Novelty Shows 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): Willie Campbell: the Glasgow Giant 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): Randall Williams: Ghost Show 1870s: Glasgow (Vinegar Hill): W. Swallow: Big Boat
Some more shows from the familys from Vinegarhill
1896: : Lord Geo. Sangers Circus & Menagerie 1896: : Bostock & Wombell’s Menagerie 1896: : Reader’s Menagerie 1896: : Codona’s Ghost Show 1896: : McIndo’es Ghost Show and Gondolas 1896: : Birchall’s Ghost Show 1896: : George Green: Venetian Gondola and Tunnel Railway; John Green: Steam Bicycles and Steam Swings 1896: : J. White: Tunnel Railway 1896: : Walter Wilmot: Three-abreast Jumpers 1896: : Swallow: Four-abreast Jumpers
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Post by Waverley on Mar 24, 2011 9:15:22 GMT 1
Peter. Before Tommy Swallow died I had a loan of that book which you mentioned which was written by a member of the Swallow family. I returned it to his brother or nephew who was named Gilbertwho lived in the Traveller's Park in Swanston Street. I have heard they will have to move out of there due to the new dual carriage-way...yet another piece of the east end's social history will disappear forever.
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Post by katslater on Mar 24, 2011 19:08:31 GMT 1
Hi Charlie its ur old pal kathy here ? aye its a shame swanson street have to move out as well wonder where they will go used to know folk that lived there
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Post by pwm437 on Mar 24, 2011 20:13:08 GMT 1
More from my research notes on Vinegarhill.
The Detective : 16th July 1885
'Among The Shows at Vinegarhill' The 'shows' with their yards of flapping canvas, still brave the breeze. Doubtless our social progress has condemned them to an obscure grave, but they die hard. The showman is not easily killed, his canvas always a fascinating influence over the juvenile portion of the community, and the pictures that adorn the exterior of the booths are sufficiently tempting to induce the youths to deliver up their penny at the door. The degenerate condition into which the 'Fair', as represented at Vinegarhill has gradually fallen bespeaks at no distant date total collapse. The good old days that made Glasgow Fair famous are gone, and in their place we have a collection of starved hares and canaries, smooth faced giants, mysterious looking females, colossal alligators, and diminutive men and women.
Leaving historic Trongate, and skirting along Gallowgate, dodging in turn tram-cars and old women with apple stalls who implore me to invest. I reach the Fairground. What a noise ! the yelling, howling, swearing, laughing, thieving and devilry. What a combination of brass bands, steam whistles and organs! Here every human contrivance is put into operation in order to draw the hard-earned copper from the pockets of the artizan.
Everything under the sun from 'Birds of Paradise' to 'Tamed Rats', all are crowded together in this small square for the benefit of holiday makers. Trumpet speaking men proclaim the excellence of theri particular show, about which 'their is no deception'. Zulus dressed in their native costume execute their war dances on the platform and invite visitors to step inside.
Tragedians, arrayed in all their glories of tin helmets and spangled jackets, with wooden swords, loudly assert that they will play 'Hamlet in five long acts'. Fairies, in satin and muslin bid defiance to the time honoured custom of keeping behind the curtain, and strut on the outside stage as alligators, that is if the representations on the canvas are correct, and a sudden impulse to view the aforesaid snakes seizes me. But my desire to enter is nipped in the bud, a sheet of paper the writing on which announces the show is 'full', so I have to pass on.
Every show is not doing such a roaring trade as the 'snakes', and seduced by the oratory of a cockney I elbow my way through a motley crowd of acrobats, clowns, equestrians, and ponies, to the door where an old lady collars my penny, after which performance, I am allowed to enter the 'Grand Circus'.
The audience is not large and mosty composed of youths who are tumbling over their heels, crawling below the seats and indulging in other acrobatic tricks with a view to qualifying themselves for ral circus work in after life. At last the shout is given 'Begin', and the performers take up their places in the ring. A piebald pony is introduced, and a youth who attempts to wipe paint off with his bonnet is very promptly cuffed by the clown. The old circus tricks are repeated, and in ten minutes we are again in the open air.
Allured by the notes of an execrably played fiddle, I enter a place of delight called a 'penny gaff'. But the place is abominably dirty, and the odour of the company and of the lurgan twist they are smoking is powerful, so very powerful that it frightens me and I bolt.
A sparring booth is the next place worth of notice. Professors of the 'noble h'art' are haranguing the crowd, and invite all and sundry to step in and have a 'go'. I am not at all inclined to pay twopence for the privilege of having my nose double its ordinary size, so again I pass on.
A 'reg'lar beauty', shouts a bleary-eyed dissipated looking fellow, 'weights twenty-six stone'. I gazed at the enormous size of the woman depicted on the canvas, and then at the very small proportions of the caravan, until i am lost in wonder as to whether the woman holds the house, or the house holds the woman. It is no use disputing the 'beauty' of the womans taste differ, and I leave the proprietor though he doesn't look like one, endeavoring to entice open-mouthed urchins inside the tent.
During the next few minutes I am in the midst of 'hares', 'snakes', 'wonder workers' and 'jugglers'. Insinuating owners of ghost shows try to wheedle me within their web, but I an obdurate. Sometimes a pretty, occasionally an ugly, face makes a fierce dart at me from a shooting saloon, and endeavors to thrust a gun into my hands: now a lazy Italian, with his ice-cream, seizes me by the arm and whispers his price into my ear. But I am not to be wheedled, and passing rapidly over the smaller fry I reach a booth clean and tidy in its outward appearance, where 'Alonzo the Brave' is the chief attraction.
I enter the temple of drama, passing in my ascent, villains, robbers and heroes. There is a large audience of every conceivable grade, from the swell with his eye-glass and spats, down to the dirty faced urchin who wipes his nose with the cuff of his ragged jacket. Here is a youth indulging in his first dissipation of summer drinks, while there is another who is cramming cakes of gingerbread down what appears to be a bottomless pit. And here is a factory girl who has come to have a good 'pen'orth' of the drama, while there is the gamin' all eyes and ears for the commencement.
'The band will play the last 'toon on the outside', cries the first robber ' and then we go h'inside to begin'. The musicians strike up 'God Save the Queen' and the actors make their way through the audience and pass through the stage door. The band is seated, there are two or three preliminary flushes on their part, and then the curtain is rung up.
I do not wait the consummation of the drama and amid the murmurs from the pit I see the door.
The rain is falling heavily and the crowds are gradually melting. Therefore, and as I have had enough of the shows for one season, let us jump into this tram-car bound westward, and seek the cosy circle round the fireside'.
The above recollection, is I believe the most vivid written account of Vinegarhill that exists. To think all of the above took place on what we now know as the Forge Retail Park.
Somehow KFC and Carphone Warehouse won't quite seem the same having read what happened on the site all those years ago.
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Post by pwm437 on Mar 24, 2011 20:19:06 GMT 1
The Glaswegian : 15th July 1886
'There is the usual display of tinsel and canvas, high flies and discordant music at Vinegar Hill this year. There are the usual crowds of pleasure-seeking lads and lassies, and to all appearance this year's show is much the same on previous occasions. One new feature, however, fails to be noticed, and it is the securing of one of the tents for religious services on Sunday. This is as it should be.
These showmen are for the most part strangers in our midst and are unacquainted with our manners. It is only our duty to see some form of worship is provided for them, and it is to be hoped this system will not be reserved to Glasgow or to the present holiday season'.
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Post by pwm437 on Mar 24, 2011 20:29:09 GMT 1
Glasgow Eastern Standard : 25th July 1936
'When Vinegar Hill Was At Its Zenith'
'During the past quarter of a century the Gallowgate east of East John Street (MIllerston Street) has not changed much from what we knew in the 'seventies' or 'eighties', except for the frontage of the old Vinegar Hill Showground. Many old houses are still standing, but the old showground is open to the street without gate or stile.
In the sixties, I think, the fair was still held in what is now Jocelyn Square, a better title than Jail Square of old time. The booths and stalls then had to find 'fresh fields and pasture new'. This they found at Crownpoint and Vinegar Hill. With the building of tramway stables in David Street the ground at Crownpoint was lost and the entire fair housed at Vinegar Hill.
This was a piece of land on which there had been at one tim a foundry - possibly David Napier's. Down one side flowed the Camlachie Burn, a wretched looking little stream. In winter time it was a sea of mud, and in the summer a Sahara of dust. The atmosphere was odorous with the smell of oil, tars, currier's grease, resin and other things being prepared or manufactured.
The Fair ground was arranged in some sort of plan. the big shows formed a half circle at the back of the ground. There were two entrances of a kind at the east and west ends, with an inside circle between these of smaller booths and stalls for the sale of sweets, hot peas, lemonade, toys etc., on either side of a make-shift street. Inside this circle also were most of the merry go rounds, hobby horses and velocipedes.
The big shows were pretty good and well worth the small charge of admission. Why, I once saw the entire play of 'The Silver King' in twenty minutes doen in the best style, a la Wilson Barrett!.
The Ghost Show was excruciatingly funny. This was Clarke's adaption of Pepper's Ghost by means of plate-glass. It was the shows that Barrie mentions in 'Auld Licht Idyllis'. Trowhead went to the exhibition, but from his seat he sould see behind the scenes, and saw more than he intended. He laughed when the rest laughed, but he never saw where the fun came in !
Then there were the shooting ranges, much affected by the young men of the period, where you might have the pleasure of having your rifle loaded by your mother's 'stair-girl'. Needless to say, the guns were muzzle loaders.
Then there were booths showing feats of jugglery, acrobacy, pugilism and wrestling. The 'Brummagen Chicken' would wrestle the world.
Standing aloof, from the rest of the Fair was a permanent erection - that is, it was of wood, not canvas. This was 'The Adelphi Theatre', which was run by Mrs. David Prince Miller, widow of a former famous Glasgow actor-manager.
Swallow's Circus, also a wooden erection, stood at the opposite end of the ground from the Adelphi. Here was good equestrian entertainment from a penny to fourpence, with the clown's very latest seventeenth century jokes thrown in !
There was the inevitable fat woman, the swings, the 'Waterloo Fly' - an instrument of torture now forgotten, and the children's delight, the hobby horses and velocipedes. It is in this class that the most revolutionary changes have taken place. Many of the merry go rounds were still worked by boy or man power, and the wheezy old hand organ was not yet displaced by the piano organ or brazen blarer.
For the operation of the merry go rounds, boys who volunteered to turn the crank would get a free ride. The velocipedes were an imitation of the old iron 'bone-shaker'. and one had the pleasure of working a real peddle.
It is said that once, on the occasion of the owner having retired to General Wolff's House, to get rid of the dust from his throat, the riders on the wheels took control of the contraption and nearly the poor boy at the crank !
It was good entertainment and need not cost you a ha'penny. Many thought that they got more fun outside than in. The painting of the fat wife was more gruesome than the person herself - in any case boys were not admitted.
You saw the girl mesmerised, lying on the point of a stick fastened on the outside platform, you also saw, on the same, all the actors in 'Sweeney Todd, the Barber', dressed for their parts.
People have different ways of amusing themselves today - but whether or not they are happier is a moot point'.
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Post by tammccann on Mar 24, 2011 21:48:51 GMT 1
Great reading Peter
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jawbox
New Member
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Posts: 12
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Post by jawbox on Mar 24, 2011 22:07:30 GMT 1
a remember the shows in the 50s between Springfield Road an Helenvale Strret oan the sperr grun (afore they bilt the Post Office). A canny remember who organised them - wizzit the same show people as the Vinigar Hill mob? A also remember the big Showboats therr an never huvin enuf muny tae go oan aw the rides, Waltzers etc. wizzit a regular thing therr , specully oan hoalidays - the ferr etc? a dunno , anibdy else know a bit merr than me?
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Post by Frances McGinlay on Jan 13, 2021 12:59:10 GMT 1
Hello. My mother was born in 1923 and when she wrote out her story she started with "I was born in a wagon in Vinegar Hill" Her mother, my grandmother's, maiden name was Phoebe Rose, she married a Winters and I think they moved away from showpeople early after my mum was born. I never really knew my grandma and my Mum never talked about that time which is a real regret.
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Post by Lea Duncan on Mar 26, 2021 20:16:24 GMT 1
Hi , I wonder if anyone can help me out here please? I,m trying to find anything about my Grandfather Archiebald Combe . Apparently he was part of an act ? I only found out about him recently from a new cousin in Australia. He was born 1887 , I,m told as a child he played with the kids of Vinegar Hill . He was a gifted ventriloquist and slight of hand tricks . Thank you so much
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Post by Lea Duncan on Mar 26, 2021 22:04:35 GMT 1
Hi , I wonder if anyone can help me out here please? I,m trying to find anything about my Grandfather Archiebald Combe . Apparently he was part of an act ? I only found out about him recently from a new cousin in Australia. He was born 1887 , I,m told as a child he played with the kids of Vinegar Hill . He was a gifted ventriloquist and slight of hand tricks . Thank you so much
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Post by Nicky. on Feb 18, 2023 20:25:32 GMT 1
As we approach Spring, I thought I would do a bit of a tidy up and came across a box file with my research notes on Camlachie. During the mid 1990's I made contact with members of the showpeople and discovered my hand written notes in the file. 19/4/94 : Mary-Ann Gibson Born in 1915 she remembered many of the Vinegarhill families; Salvona Boswell (known for Palmistry) Stirling Kerr Testo Gibson Slater Cadona Whites (went to Springburn) She recalled attending Camlachie Primary School, and the Camlachie Institute, where plays would be performed by school pupils and hristmas parties held. Vinegarhill Showground was owned by the Green family and was originally split in two, lying both sides of Vinegarhill Street. In 1931 the east side was sold to the Corporation for a park, and Mrs Green, wife of the owner, selected the families who would stay and those who would go. The Greens had three daughters, one of whom, Nona, went on to marry Jimmy McGrory, the famous Celtic footballer. Shops remembered by Mary-Ann include; McKee Bakers (Gallowgate at Whitevale) Dorothy Forsyth, owner of the General Wolfe pub Cochranes McLean's Pub Mary-Ann also remembered collecting hot cinders from an engine works at Mountainblue during the General Strike in 1926, as well as people being arrested and taken to Camlachie Police Station. At Vinegarhil, the Greens had a picture hall, which was later used as a boxing booth. Vinegarhill ceased to be a carnival around 1927/8. A family called Marshall from Dunrobin Street owned ponies. Showman Harry Salvona was known as 'Koko' (clown)
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Post by Joe orourke on Jul 6, 2023 16:02:27 GMT 1
As we approach Spring, I thought I would do a bit of a tidy up and came across a box file with my research notes on Camlachie. During the mid 1990's I made contact with members of the showpeople and discovered my hand written notes in the file. 19/4/94 : Mary-Ann Gibson Born in 1915 she remembered many of the Vinegarhill families; Salvona Boswell (known for Palmistry) Stirling Kerr Testo Gibson Slater Cadona Whites (went to Springburn) She recalled attending Camlachie Primary School, and the Camlachie Institute, where plays would be performed by school pupils and hristmas parties held. Vinegarhill Showground was owned by the Green family and was originally split in two, lying both sides of Vinegarhill Street. In 1931 the east side was sold to the Corporation for a park, and Mrs Green, wife of the owner, selected the families who would stay and those who would go. The Greens had three daughters, one of whom, Nona, went on to marry Jimmy McGrory, the famous Celtic footballer. Shops remembered by Mary-Ann include; McKee Bakers (Gallowgate at Whitevale) Dorothy Forsyth, owner of the General Wolfe pub Cochranes McLean's Pub Mary-Ann also remembered collecting hot cinders from an engine works at Mountainblue during the General Strike in 1926, as well as people being arrested and taken to Camlachie Police Station. At Vinegarhil, the Greens had a picture hall, which was later used as a boxing booth. Vinegarhill ceased to be a carnival around 1927/8. A family called Marshall from Dunrobin Street owned ponies. Showman Harry Salvona was known as 'Koko' (clown)
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