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Post by Waverley on May 28, 2008 19:29:51 GMT 1
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Post by norrie on May 28, 2008 20:25:35 GMT 1
Hi Charlie, what was that item about, I just seen it flash on the screen when I had a visitor, so i missed it. Bye for now, norrie
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Post by Waverley on May 29, 2008 15:48:01 GMT 1
The Scotsman today.
Garden to help lay wartime shame to rest
Published Date: 29 May 2008 By MARTYN McLAUGHLIN THEY were among the early generations of what is now one of Scotland's most vibrant and successful communities, but for years their descendants have had to live with a pain all but forgotten by the rest of the world. Now, six decades after an inglorious episode in Britain's wartime history which claimed the lives of more than 700 civilians and prisoners of war, Scots-Italians will finally have a place to remember the plight of their forebears.
Standing alongside Alex Salmond, the First Minister, and Mario Conti, the Archbishop of Glasgow, at the launch of an appeal to raise funds for a memorial garden to the Arandora Star tragedy, Rando Bertoia remembered the morning of 11 June, 1940 as if it were last week. Aged 20, he heard the knock at the door of his home in the Gorbals. It was two police officers, waiting to take him and his father away.
The day before, Mussolini had declared war on the Allies. The 20,000 Italians, like the Bertoias who were resident in Britain, could no longer hope for an offer of sanctuary.
Instead, under a contentious policy of internment designed to root out so-called "enemy aliens", Rando and his father were among countless Italian men between the ages of 18 and 70 arrested and rounded up.
Three weeks later, Winston Churchill having decided that the dominions were the best place to send them, the men were herded aboard the SS Arandora Star. Mr Bertoia was one of 1,673 bodies crammed on to the converted cruise ship, which left Liverpool bound for Canada.
He was alongside his cousin Luigi, when, off the west coast of Co Donegal, a German U-boat struck, its torpedoes sending the Star to the ocean floor.
Having found space in a lifeboat, Mr Bertoia was picked up by a Canadian destroyer and taken to Greenock, where a roll-call determined who had survived. His cousin's name went unanswered. Luigi was dead. Some 445 other Italians suffered the same fate, among them Alfonso Crolla, the original partner in the Edinburgh delicatessen Valvona & Crolla, and generations of relatives of Sir Eduardo Paolozzi, the esteemed sculptor.
At the age of 88, Mr Bertoia is the last Scots-Italian survivor from the ill-fated crossing. In the time that has passed, there has been no permanent memorial, and neither apology nor compensation from the British government. As the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported, the Star appeared to have been "swallowed up by the silence of history".
Nowadays, Mr Bertoia feels no bitterness. "These things happen in war," the retired watch repairer said yesterday. All that mattered, he added, was being able to witness the start of a project that will give Scots-Italians a place to grieve.
The appeal, launched yesterday, aims to raise £1.5 million to build an Italian-style cloister garden in Glasgow. Already, 2,000 letters have gone out to the city's considerable Scots-Italian community asking for donations, with the chance to have their relatives commemorated in a wall.
"The garden will be more than a place for relaxation and meditation," said Mr Salmond.
"It will serve as a memorial to those men who were taken away from their homes, families and lives in Scotland following Italy's entry into the war."
'An oasis of tranquillity amid the city bustle – a place to sit and reflect'
CREATING a memorial garden to the victims of the Arandora Star tragedy will cement the historic bond between Scotland and Italy, Mario Conti, the Archbishop of Glasgow, said yesterday.
Speaking at the launch of the appeal to raise funds for the Italian cloister garden, he said it would be "a fitting symbol of the great bonds of friendship between Scotland and Italy".
He added: "The cloister garden will quickly become a much-loved oasis of tranquillity amid the city bustle, a place to come alone or with friends, to reflect, to sit awhile and to remember."
The garden is part of a number of refurbishment works planned for St Andrew's Cathedral, the mother church of Glasgow's Catholic community. It will be sited next to the cathedral in Clyde Street and will include a café, exhibition space and meeting room.
The cathedral will be given new floors, lighting, pews, decoration and heating.
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Post by Waverley on May 29, 2008 20:42:23 GMT 1
Of the 805 Italians who were on the boat 446 perished at sea...27 of the 101 with a Scots connection who died had a Glasgow address and the majority of the rest had Edinburgh addresses. So the rest of the 359 casualties were either British servicemen or German prisoners of war do they not get a mention or do they not count...cannot understand why this memorial is being placed in Glasgow. And I cannot understand why we should feel guilty and ashamed when it was sunk by a German U-Boat...
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Post by norrie on May 29, 2008 23:03:46 GMT 1
Hi Charlie, perhaps we are to be expected to feel ashamed that the then UK government sent those Italians on that ship. I see where you are coming from, perhaps the Germans should chip in some cash, they sunk the ship. Thanks for your explanation. Bye for now, Norrie
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Post by holywell37 on May 30, 2008 16:19:54 GMT 1
I think the government wre right to shift the italians out, as their country had declared war on us, that they were torpeod by the germans was not our responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2008 23:11:30 GMT 1
A bit of a sweeping statement. Some of these people would haVE been here for a long time and would have thought of themselves as Scottish
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Post by Waverley on May 31, 2008 11:23:16 GMT 1
Prior to the First World War there were thousands of Germans working in the hotel trade in Britain and when war came in 1914 the majority were rounded up an sent back to Germany. Then someone realised that we were in effect sending them back to train as soldiers and therefore kill British soldiers...so the practice ceased for the duration of the war. In 1940 when Italy declared war on Britain Churchill issued his famous statement 'Collar the lot of them' and thousands of Italians in Britain were arrested in the interest of National Security. Many were sympathisers to Mussolini and his Fascist Party and had openly displayed their allegiance to El Duce...the Moose... prior to the war. Albeit as you say Irene some did see themselves as Scots and enlisted in the British Army to fight the evil of Nazism and one even went on to win a Victoria Cross with your new home town regiment the Royal Scots Fusiliers... The Italians have settled in well in Scottish society despite being victims of abuse and racism in the early days and having been our Allies in the First World War and enemies in the Second. As a keen student of military history and war memorials I just find it strange that a war memorial should be built to our former enemies who were killed by their own Allies and brothers in Fascism. Is there an ulterior motive to all this...
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2008 18:59:55 GMT 1
I know where you are coming from Charlie....it was just the notion of ' round them up and ship them out ' I was uncomfortable with. A whiff of xenophobia there!!!
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Post by Waverley on Feb 4, 2009 8:17:55 GMT 1
I have just learned that there already is a war memorial to the Italian victims of the Andorra Star in the old Casa Italia Centre which I believe is the register office in Glasgow...not quite sure if they mean the old Martha Street office or the new one at Park Circus...the plot thickens.
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